UK interest

[dhstick]

Hi Forum,

I live in the UK and would like to know whether the LP is UK compatible - both key configurations, software and whether there is a retailer in the UK or somewhere I can try it out first.

I'm also interested to know whether it is a worthwhile investment in the future of input devices. A friend and I recently had a discussion and we figured that gesture on a pad will lead to gesture on the air and so on until VR.

Surely the best place to start on this track is to upgrade keyboard and mouse with an LP. Is this a common thought path?

Can anybody tell me the difference between the LP and the ST?

And can anyone persuade me to use DVORAK?!

I will use this keyboard mostly at home and that would include programming and gaming.

On the subject of gaming is it possible to use the whole keyboard while using the mouse/gaming mode. For instance go-codes are assigned to keys j,k,l and m. Would I have to swipe down to quit gaming mode, hit the key then swipe up again to go back to gaming mode? Or should I just re-assign the go-code keys?

I hope someone can help me out as I am quite fired up and I don't want to lose my enthusiasm or spend the money I just acquired :)

Thanks

Dave

[PNit]

I don't have my touchstream yet (it's on the way) but I have recently switched te DVORAK.

I ordered a QWERTY keyboard, but will probably be using it in DVORAK mode. About 6 weeks ago I started learning the DVORAK layout but I still used qwerty for most of my input as it was much faster.

About a week ago I started using dvorak exclusively. Still no where near as fast (or accurate) as I used to be, but enough to be productive. Trouble is, when I do have to use qwerty I have to look at the keys now.

I think the switch was worth it. I am now much more comfortable when I type. Whenever I use qwerty it feels like my fingers are about to manouver themselves into a knot... There is so much less movement using dvorak.

When my touchstream arrives I will definitely still keep typing in dvorak. I've long since learned to ignore the letters on the keys :-). I figure regular people (my wife) will want to use the keyboard to, hence the reason for the qwerty layout.

DVORAK won't make you significantly faster, it does make you a lot more comfortable though. As an added bonus, I think the minimized movement patterns will make surface typing easier.

[nomaded]

I have a ST, formerly known as the Stealth. I don't actually have an LP, but from all the pictures I've seen, I can make some guesses at the differences.

The LP and the ST are pretty much the same. The biggest difference is that the ST is attached to the optional metal tent frame that you can get with the LP. Because the LP is not attached to the metal frame, it's easier to carry around. The two halves of the LP can be also repositioned, since it isn't attached to a frame. When the LP is sitting on the frame, with the wrist pads attached, it's pretty much an ST, with some options.

[John Meacham]

ST is not attached to the frame. it is just an LP that comes with the optional frame. the keyboard can be removed and folded up. quite handy. I have not tried the cable extension hack yet though, but look forward to trying it.

[Magic]

If you're going to learn Dvorak, I'd recommend learning it first. You'll be very frustrated trying to learn the keyboard and Dvorak at the same time.

(You could take the opposite approach I guess, of learning the keyboard with Qwerty, and only after becoming good at that learning Dvorak.) But I think all the key movement of qwerty would be comparitively frustrating to Dvorak.

[jorr]

Originally posted by John Meacham
ST is not attached to the frame.
Actually the ST is permanently attached to the frame, but we no longer sell it. Instead the LP is sold with the frame (no longer an option). So in other words you get the same functinality of the ST (tented frame for working at desk) plus the benefit the portability of the LP (being able to fold it up and take it with a laptop). We have found that this is what most customers prefer.

[John Meacham]

ah. i guess I got an lp + frame then and not an st. excellent.

[geekgrrl]

I'm also in the UK, and was wondering if anyone could answer the first part of dhstick's question?

* Is the MacNTouch compatable with a UK key layout?
* Are there any distributors in the UK?

I'm really keen to get one, but I would prefer to actually see one first, and the shipping costs would be lower if you have a local distributor.

Thanks,

[aegis]

I'm also in the UK. I have an LP with the US QUERTY layout. The US layout doesn't bother me as the last two keyboards I've owned were like this. I guess its whatever you're used to.

As there is no UK distributor I would be happy for people to try out my keyboard rather than buy one unseen. As other people on the forums have said, typing takes a bit of getting used to but I'd never go back to a mechanical keyboard and mouse.

BTW I work in London (Docklands).

Daniel.

[geekgrrl]

Thanks aegis! That's a very kind offer, which I might take you up on when I decide what I'm going to get. I'm currently dithering between the portability between computers of the LP and the neat, built-in nature of the MacNTouch.

As a matter of interest, did you order yours from Fingerworks directly, and did UK Customs charge you and arm and a leg in VAT and import duty? If this is of no interest to anyone else, feel free to mail me privately about it.

[aegis]

Unfortunately customs and excise did require a limb (only the one, for import) :(

I hope you have more luck.

[nomaded]

Originally posted by geekgrrl
I'm currently dithering between the portability between computers of the LP and the neat, built-in nature of the MacNTouch.

I currently own a Stealth (ST), which I've had for over a year, and a MacNTouch, which I got last week. My suggestion is to get the keyboard that you think you'll be using the most, day in, day out. It really helps to be using the TouchStream keyboard a lot for the first couple weeks. It gets you used to the lack of tactile feedback and gets you used to using gestures instead of key combos for lots of different tasks. You'll also find it helpful to install the MyGesture editor, just to see all the different gestures that you can do listed in one place.

[DrPeggs]

GULP "Import Duty" ?

Damn i only figured in VAT - how much is import duty?

I am in the UK and have just this second ordered a qwerty touchstream and extra frame. I tried mentioning DABs to the sales guys but i dont think they can get anyone over here to pick the products up which is a real shame cos had i not been almost crippled by RSI (ok a small exageration i know) i would probably have given up on getting one by now. Its only due to seeing a fellow RSI strickened colleague's DVORAK one demonstrated that i have gone to the effort!

[geekgrrl]

Originally posted by DrPeggs
GULP "Import Duty" ?

Damn i only figured in VAT - how much is import duty?


As far as I remember it's 2.5%, which brings the grand total of taxes up to 20% with 17.5% VAT. :(

I'm sure it will be worth it though! I'm proud to say that I've just ordered my first Touchstream (the MacNTouch) through the German distributor, and I'm impatiently awaiting its delivery! I thought it might be better to order one from a little closer to home in case of problems, despite the fact that it was a bit more complicated to order.

The website was only in German, so it took a few passes through Babelfish and a lot of guess-work to fill in the order form. :D

I can't wait!

[DrPeggs]

Blimey - that was brave
I am right in thinking that they only do the apple version though yes?
anyway - thanks for info, with any luck they will only charge the import duty (who am i trying to kid?!)

[geekgrrl]

Yes, they only do the Mac one. In fact, when I first posted in this thread, they only did the iGesture, which was why I asked about UK distributors.

Well, fingers crossed... let's hope it works out. I think that they're out of stock at the moment.

[BusError]

So what is the answer then, is there a distributor in UK? Do they have stocks of the keyboards ?

[DrPeggs]

The answer is no - no distributor in the uk
there is one in germany if you want the apple version but otherwise you are stuck with a 70-80 dollar postage fee, a 17.5% vat fee (i think) and a 2.5% import fee

I can tell you if it was worth it in about a months time if you like!

...the fingerworks people are looking for a distributor so write to dabs and you never know!?

[BusError]

Ah. Had forgotten the shipping was so expensive. I already asked them if they were using "Naked Girls Parcels, Inc" for deliveries :-)

[DrPeggs]

hhhhmmn, naked girl parcels
;)



:p

[DrPeggs]

Update on the charges (my touchstream arrives today)

I can not believe UPS!!! I am paying 17.5% VAT on the keyboard which is fine, but also you pay vat on UPS' flaming delivery charge PLUS £10 to cover their costs paying the vat to customs!!!!! What a rip off! And to top it all off I still can't leave the house until the delivery arrives, even though I paid the charges to UPS over the phone cos I have to give the delivery bloke a reference number!!!!!!! shambles

at least you dont have to pay import duty as well so cancel that 2.5% thing earlier in the thread

not a happy bunny
:(

[BusError]

Mines apparently in the truck, but I haven't heard from UPS about those charge. I supose they'll blast me when they arrive :-/

Funily enough, maybe both our keyboards are on the same truck! :-)

[DrPeggs]

lol, maybe - not in hampshire are you?
anyway - have your chequebook at the ready - i had an extra tent stand thing (plus a touchstream obviously) so the fees payable to the delivery chap came to 60 quid....icing on the cake now will be if he doesnt accept the reference number that i have been given!

[BusError]

5:36:02 A.M. - Abingdon - Out For Delivery
Nope I'm in berkshire :-)

Yeah I think that UPS delivery thing is just outrageous. It took a week to deliver, and it ends up costing 50% more than the already expensive price.
I don't understand that, there are cheaper and less intrusive alternative. When I receive stuff via Fedex, they just send me a bill like polite people; and I don't get charged £10 extra.

I definitly won't recommend buying anything until that's sorted out.

[BusError]

well i just recived it as is it easy to guess. I had to pay the 64 pounds (how do i type the english pound sign on this keyboard ?) directly to the delibvery boy.

I had'nt really realized til now that my typing speed would crash so much :-)

of course i had to get this right at the start of a new project ! :-)

[DrPeggs]

yeah i am also using mine at the mo very very slowly
IT is good but i cant seem to get the hang of having all fingers down at the same time - i have just taken it out of the box tho!
i really like the mousing tho and love the way it spell checks and corrects for you!
just my luck tho - i cut my finger opening the box and so am now trying to do it with a plaster on one finger! lol

[BusError]

I used it all day now so I recovered some speed, however it is still painfully slow.

I have disabled the typing aids, I already have trouble like that I don't need it to "correct" my terminal command lines :-)
Also, if I have to correct bad habits I'd rather do it immfediately.

For some reason my "mouse" hand feels quite tired by now, not sure that hand is used to have to holds the fingers off like that all the time. iI try to "rest" it but I think I'm too tense with concentration to relax properly.

I love the thumb+pinky for return, and of course the cursor keys gestures - that got integrated right away. THATS awesome. Altho the cursor keys can get remote "vi" sessions very confusing (it drops characters and sends vi into no-no modes)

I already fiddled myself some extra cobos for Xcode etc, the combo editor is quite nice.
Coding is very challenging tho, the "out of the way" keys sends my hands out of position too easily for now.

[-jeffB]

If you haven't already, fire up that programmer's keypad. It makes a huge difference for coding. I'm trying to get in the habit of using it, but I think it may finally ruin me for conventional keyboards... :-)

[BusError]

Yeah I have that on, but I dont get the left hand chord right all the time and the resukt is annoying :-)
I;m especialy careful with command line switches, where trying to type an hyphen that way already resulted in "return" to be typed instead for an unknown reason.

[BusError]

So, DrPeggs, how is the typing ? :-)

After one week, I can type by looking at the keyboard only half the time or so, I got much more speed in too, even if it's only a fraction of the original ; still it fell "fast" !
Still lots of typos tho, both "neibourgs" and "motor" ones, because I use more fingers than I used to on the normal keyboard.

I got the chords pretty much in hands as well. especialy the sequences shift/programmers pad/control sequences, since I'm programming a lot.

Funily enough, the "mouse" and "general" gestures I haven't assimilated a lot, most probably because I still think the mousing lacks precision. I generaly find the gesturing imprecise, I hope to improve !

[DrPeggs]

yeah, getting on ok, i think it will work out.
For me its the li keys when typing 'like'- i must press them too quickly
i also miss the last letter off words because i am used to pressing space with my left hand - i suspect i will get used to this eventually tho
oh yeah also i keep hitting caps lock too
still love the keyboard tho, amazing how
many demos of it i have to do per day too!
the gesture editor is a complete mistery to me at the moment
i just want to add the combo of invis keys 4 and 10 i think it is to make a quick alt+ctrl+del but i really cant figure it out
i am getting used to the uk layout now so it is less of an issue for me than i originally thought it would be
i cant use it for games
tho, other than warcraft 3 type which it is ok for

[BusError]

Yeah, I'm not the gaming type, but the only game I play(ed) is ThinkTanks ( GarageGames (http://www.garagegames.com/) ) but I can't play it with this keyboard at all, it seems it cannot handle more than one key pressed at the same time.
Also, that game requires precise mousing, which is beyond me at the moment.

[dhstick]

i've just ordered my touchstream lp

i just thought i'd post to say thanks to everyone who's replied to my original post - the support was very encouraging

i'll keep you all posted

-Dave

ps. what a relief to only have to tiny concerns
a. delivery costs - so what, its gotta be worth it
b. games - i always have my ole mechanical :-)

[fingerworks]

OK folks, we finally signed up a UK reseller:

http://www.fingerworks.com/resellers.html#uk

The Back Store - London - Brighton
330 King Street
Hammersmith
London W6 0RR
London Tel: 020 8 741 5022
Brighton Tel: 01273 685 125
London email: london@thebackstore.co.uk
Brighton email: brighton@thebackstore.co.uk
web: www.thebackstore.co.uk

Contact them this week so they can get your order in on the first overseas shipment!!

[dhstick]

good job fingerworks, watch your sales rocket! :cool:

[BusError]

Now it would be great if their website worked ;-D

[dhstick]

if you type the address out it works fine
but clicking the link doesn't seem to work.
very odd

[nomaded]

Originally posted by dhstick
if you type the address out it works fine
but clicking the link doesn't seem to work.
very odd

It's probably because the correct url is http://www.thebackstore.co.uk/ , not http://www.backstore.co.uk/ as listed in fingerworks' post :).

[BusError]

Website all in flash, I already love them!

[Arachnamus]

The supplier doesnt seem to have your product on their site, I dont suppose you know if they have a shop I can pop into?

[dhstick]

330 King Street, Hammersmith, London
for a map put W6 0RR into multimap.com (http://www.multimap.com)

[Nigel BackStore]

Hello dhstick

We are the sole UK resellers of the Fingerworks products, our showrooms are in London and Brighton. We have all the products for demonstration. The stock should be arriving at the end of Jan.
If you would like to contact us on 020 8 741 5022 for more information. BTW they will be UK qwerty!

Rgds

Nigel

[DrPeggs]

BTW they will be UK qwerty

god-damn, i knew i should have waited!!

[Nigel BackStore]

:(

[dxtr]

Still within the thirty day return period? If not the board graphic change is not all that expensive....

[fingerworks]

The shipping would cost more than the cover change when their keyboard is already in the UK!

If any of you were planning on getting Dvorak you should let Nigel know so he can order a couple of those too.